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What to do when a child brings meat to your house

April 28, 2010

For this week’s parenting topic, Linda had a challenge for the Council of Vegan Parents:

“Last summer I did daycare for a 5 year old. I had explained to his mother that we were vegan and wouldn’t be serving animal products. One day, she was running late and sent him in with his fast food chicken nuggets and fries so he could finish his lunch he had been eating in the car.

“I was horrified but didn’t say anything. So here I was, picking up chicken nuggets off of the floor and explaining to my children why they weren’t something they could eat. So how would you handle it if your child’s playmate came toting their own non-veg food over to your house????”

Be clear

As Kari says, “we are always clear with people before they come over. We tell them that we do not eat animal products (and we give them the most common ones) in our house.”

This is one of those things where someone like me says “be clear” and you go “yeah yeah yeah, I’m clear,” and then something happens. Sure, it works out great for me because there’s a column in it but it’s worth repeating again and again and again.

I don’t know the specifics of Linda’s story beyond what you see here, but “we won’t be serving animal products” is different than, say, “we don’t allow animal products in our home,” and then listing off some of the big ones like Kari does – it always amazes me how fish and chicken are mystical non-animals for a lot of people, for example.

If you’re in a mixed household with meat eating and vegan parents but vegan children, you’ve probably already given a lot of thought about what you will and will not tolerate, so while this situation might seem more difficult, it’s probably a bit easier to communicate the rules, since you’ve likely already done so inside the house – you’ll probably want to review how you say them though, since communication within the family uses its own set of shorthand.

Be The Vegan

In a lot of ways, this isn’t much different from some of the other situations we’ve talked about in the past, like dealing with non-vegan family members: if people know that you’re vegan, and what that means (both logistically and what it means to you personally) then you’re likely to avoid a lot of these problems altogether.

Being openly vegan might put you a little bit outside of your comfort zone (not everyone likes to wear their beliefs on their sleeves like that,) so it might help to think of it as acting on behalf of your child, not yourself.

Tell everyone

This is worth its own bullet: if you’re going to be The Vegan and Be Clear for the purposes of avoiding issues, you’re going to need to be The Vegan to as many people as possible. Tell the babysitters, tell your family, tell the neighbours, and anyone else you and/or your child might come in contact with. I realize it sounds like you need to go door to door for a 30 mile radius, but it’s not as big a deal as it sounds. Telling people, I mean. The 30 mile bit was a joke.

Dealing with incidents

If, despite all your precautions, something still happens and animal products breach your protective force field, it might be an emotional time for you, so it’s best to think of a few likely scenarios ahead of time and plan out how you’re going to react. Scripts can be a great help when you’re in a stressful situation, but when you’re rehearsing in your mind, be sure to remember that a lot of these situations, depending on your imagination, will probably never ever happen, especially if you’ve followed the advice above.

How big a deal is it if meat enters your house, even without your child present? Are you channeling the parenting issues into something that’s more personal than that? In a lot of these cases, it’s helpful to ask yourself “what’s the worst that could happen?” – chances are, it’s more of a minor annoyance than a Class 5 Vegan Parenting Failure.

Your child is going to be exposed to meat a whole lot of times in his or her life, just like you are, so try to keep a level head when you’re explaining things.

Help your child understand

You’re going to be explaining animal products, why you don’t eat them, and what motivates the people who do to your child at various phases in his or her growth, and we talked about some strategies in dealing with overlap and answering questions from non-vegan children, but here’s some of what Rebecca had to offer for this particular case:

“We’ve discussed at home with our older child that other people don’t realize how eating animals has bad effects on their health, our environment, and animals, that we believe animal milk is for baby animals and animals have a right to live happy lives too, and that it’s not our place to tell people about any of this, though we could answer any questions they might have about being vegan.”

A big thanks to Linda, Kari, Rebecca and Angela for their help with this one!

Dealing with non-vegan family members
Dealing with overlap
Answering questions from non-vegan children

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Answering questions from non-vegan children

April 6, 2010

Sadly, "read the manual" usually isn't a good response. Photo by mil8

This week’s question came from Council member Kim, who asked:

“How do other families talk about vegan choices when other children are over and curious. (For example, a little friend asking “Why don’t you eat bacon? It’s yummy!)”

Without further ado, here’s what some other members of the Council of Vegan Parents had to say:

Be assertive, consistent – and prepared

“Think about things beforehand,” says Steph: “I have found myself kicking myself for using wishy-washy rhetoric when people are interested in our veganism and I wish I had said something more positive and assertive at the time.”

This advice holds true in pretty much all scenarios, really, but it’s especially useful with children, where things tend to be more on the black and white side without so many shades of grey. That said the part about being positive is a big deal too: “because we’re not murderers like your parents are” is probably not the best approach

As Steph notes, “thinking through the scenarios will make sure these things don’t happen again,” and there’s a lot to be said for preparation. If you have a few spare moments to go through some imaginary conversations (hey, they’re not just for toddlers!) you’ll find yourself better equipped for simple “why” questions if they come up.

Be honest without being gruesome

Elaine takes an honest yet age-appropriate approach to questions from nonvegan children. For a pre-teen she knows, she’ll offer vegan food when he visits, and if he has questions, she’ll answer them. For very young children, Elaine opts for a simple “I don’t eat that,” and while she’ll still answer questions, she’s quicker to change the subject. And for those in between, here’s a recent example that I think is pretty cool:

“…on a drive to the park on day we saw a truck filled with pigs. I
told the kids that seeing big metal trucks like those, with the holes
in the sides, made me sad. The kids asked why. I explained that the
pigs were probably being hauled off to slaughter to become pork, ham,
or bacon.

“More questions came: How far do they take them? Do they get food along
the way? Do they get hot or cold in the truck? Do they know what’s
happening? What should the driver do instead if everyone stopped
eating pork, ham, and bacon?

“I answered each one as honestly as I could. The pigs travel from all
over the place so some pigs travel short distances and other travel
for days. No, they do not usually have any food or water while they
travel because that would make it too messy in the truck. Yes,
sometimes it gets too hot or too cold and sometimes the pigs will get
sick or die during the trip. They don’t know exactly what’s happening,
but they’re probably scared. Wouldn’t you be scared if you were in
that truck? The driver should haul vegan food or… well what do you
want to do when you grow up? Maybe the driver should do that!”

Focus on things in common

Julie’s family tries to shift the conversation away from “why don’t you eat that” to a discussion of things that they do eat that kids also like, which shifts the emphasis over to things that they have in common. I like this idea a lot, and have you noticed that discussions with children have a lot of good strategies that work well with adults? Funny, that.

Dealing with other parents

What about when a child goes home and tells his or her parents what was said? Are there issues that need to be dealt with there?

Interestingly, none of our Council respondents have had any problems here. I think it has a lot to do with the approaches they’ve taken, as detailed here: be be consistent, be honest, don’t be gruesome, and focus on things that you have in common and you’re a lot less likely to have to deal with the “my kid says you called us Bambi killers!” confrontation.

Of course, that could just be a factor of our sample size. Have you had any incidents explaining veganism to nonvegan children, either with them or their parents? Let us know in the comments!

Thanks to Kim, Steph, Elaine, and Julie for their help with this one!

(Photo by mil8)

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How to start (or find) vegan parenting groups

February 9, 2010

Storytime is better with friends. Photo by futurestreet

OK, Spawn Better is an awesome vegan parenting resource, and we’ve heard some good things about the internet in general (it got a lot better once they put it on computers, I think,) but what about good old fashioned, face to face meetings with other vegan parents?

Do vegan parenting groups exist? How do you find them? How do you start them? And are they worth the effort?

I asked members of our Council of Vegan Parents who’d had some experience in the area, and this is what we know so far:

First and foremost, if there’s a lack of vegan parenting groups in your area, that might not be a bad thing. Al says “There are times when I look at the relative lack of large vegan family support groups out there and smile. While I thoroughly enjoy meeting with other vegan parents (and having their kids play with my kids), I think the lack of large parenting groups can be seen as a testament to how easily vegans can belong to society at large. I don’t know, maybe I’m just making myself feel better about the situation, but I think there’s something to it. The lack of vegan support groups supports the fact that it’s easy to be vegan.”

Of course, if you do want to trade tips (and maybe clothes and toys) or even just socialize, it can be a lot more comfortable for members if they don’t feel like they’re a “special case” due to their diet that needs defending on some level, and if the advice you can give and receive doesn’t need a translation layer added in, so if you’re looking for support, a vegan-specific parents group can be just the thing.

VegKins

Celeste and Al were both looking for resources for their families in the Minneapolis area. Through the vegfamily.com forums and meetup.com, people started to connect online, leading to a first “in person” meeting at a park. This turned into monthly potlucks and other events.

At roughly the same time that this was happening, Dallas Rising was (and still is) working as the Program Coordinator for the Animal Rights Coalition, also based in Minneapolis. Their mission is to help promote and encourage a cruelty free lifestyle at all phases of life, and Dallas recognized that the best way to reach really young people was to get a parents group together, so she started VegKins, which Al and Celeste’s group folded into.

Having an affiliation with a local vegan-oriented organization can have several advantages. Dallas sees her role as being the hub for the group, attracting potential members through ARC’s outreach events and maintaining continuity in case parents in the group acting as organizers move on for various reasons.

VegKins meets monthly and the location varies, and a typical event will see three to six families with children ranging in age from newborn to around five years old. When the weather’s nice, public parks have been popular meeting spots, and activities have included a group music class, storytime, and a trip to the apple orchard.

Seattle Veggie Families

In Seattle, Doh is a member of Seattle Veggie Families. This group actually started as a LunaMoms group, which was an effort by the Clif and Luna Bars people, but that group dissolved after a year or two and Seattle Veggie Families spun off of that (despite the name, Doh assures me it’s an all-vegan group.)

This group organizes through a Yahoo mailing list, which is organized by one person, but the events are suggested and managed by anyone who’s interested in making the effort.

Events aren’t on a set schedule, but they range from potlucks attended by 15-40 people to “Mama’s Nights Out” which are just for the moms to get together and talk.

Tips and Advice

Dallas and our Council members gave this advice to anyone trying to start or join a group:

Be patient. As Al says, “Growing something like this takes time. People are hesitant to join groups (especially people who are known for their independent thinking).” Your first few events will probably be small, and not everyone will show up for everything, so don’t get discouraged!

Remember that parents groups aren’t just for the parents! One of the reasons Celeste stays involved with VegKins is that she feels it’s important for her kids to have vegan friends for peer support. Of course, sometimes it’s good to get “just the grown ups” together, which is why the group is planning to have parent only meetings a few times a year where people can give their full attention to the conversation.

Keep the events short. VegKins events usually last an hour or less, which helps with short attention spans and also makes it easier to find a free space in everyone’s schedule.

Connect online. This almost seems too obvious to mention, but keep people connected through a Facebook page, or a Yahoo or Meetup group. This will help keep families in the loop and provide a voice for future event planning, but it also helps new families find you.

Partner with your local vegan group, if one exists. This can provide a central point of contact and also a source of new members. For the organization, a parents group can be a real help with outreach: Dallas finds that it’s a great conversation starter when she sees families at outreach events.

Keep the agenda to parenting. While the leadership is vegan, VegKins is open to people raising their children vegan or vegetarian, and there’s no strong agenda at the events for activsm, politics, or other subjects; the focus is simply on social interaction.

Suggest an event. One of the challenges with a parenting group is that they tend to focus on families with younger children, so parents may drift away as their children grow up. If the organizer can’t find someone to take the reins, a group can often fizzle out, so while your city may advertise a vegan parents group, it’s possible that they haven’t met in over a year. Often, the group is dormant but not dead, so simply posting to the relevant group asking about a get together might be enough to spark it back to life.

Pick locations wisely. While the groups I’ve spoken with have had good luck with parks and members’ homes, restaurants can be tricky situations with lots of small children around. If you’re planning a dineout, be sure to scout the location in advance and/or call ahead, and recognize that you might not get much chance to talk.

If you’d like more information about VegKins, you can check out their Facebook page or contact the Animal Rights Coalition, and Seattle Veggie Families has a Yahoo group. For other parts of the world, try the VegFamily forums or searching on Meetup for a vegan parents group (or a vegan group in general) and see where things go.

And of course, if you’ve got a vegan group that’s active right now, please get in touch so we can share your contact info, along with any other tips you might have!

Thanks so much to Dallas, Celeste, Al, Doh, and Trin for their input on this one!

(Photo by futurestreet)

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How to handle Anti-Population people

February 2, 2010

Wow, there certainly are a lot of us out there - but c'mon, who's as amazing as your child? Photo by Arenamontanus

This week’s question came from a member of the Council: what do you do when you’re confronted by people who feel that the mere act of having children is wrong? That might sound a little weird, but there is a subset out there who believes there are more than enough people on the planet, and adding to that population only adds to the strain on Earth’s resources (one such group has their philosophy laid out on their Voluntary Human Extinction Movement web site.)

This kind of thing can come more often when you’re a vegan parent, as the vegan community sometimes overlaps other groups like this one – at least, that’s been the experience of at least one member of the Council.

So what’s to be done? Obviously, you’ve got a difference of opinion on the matter, but it can be super easy to feel uncomfortable in a group gathering. Here’s some of what our Council of Vegan Parents had to say on the matter.

First, make sure this is what you’re dealing with. As Elaine points out, some people are simply nervous and uncomfortable around children, and babies in particular. That really could be all that’s going on.

Next, who exactly are you dealing with? Are you being confronted by a vegan anti-populationist or an omnivore one? While it’s not exactly the same thing, Al’s been in discussions with people who try to justify their meat eating with their decision not to have children. His response might help you with omnivores, and it was along these lines:

“While I’m not a fan of using numbers to argue, if you were to calculate the amount of land used to feed my vegan family of four it would be LESS than what is used to feed your omnivorous family of two (assuming you eat roughly the same amount of animal ‘products’ as the average American family does). Same goes for carbon footprint. So if you two went vegan and had a couple kids, you’d be responsible for less environmental degradation than you are right now.”

(Of course, as Al notes, this assumes that his children will choose veganism once they’re old enough to do so, but we’ll go with that as a pretty decent assumption

If you’re talking with other vegans, try focusing on what we have in common. Celeste (and many others, including myself) can’t figure out “why people within our movement feel the need to judge and alienate other vegans.” As she puts it, this goes directly against veganism’s compassionate foundations.

Just like the decision to adopt a plant-based diet, the choice to have children (or not to) is a personal decision for most people, but it’s important for everyone to realize that your family choices don’t fall inside any “Official Definition” of veganism held by any major group I’m aware of. In that context, resenting other vegans for their population choices makes about as much sense as resenting vegans because they listen to Lionel Ritchie. As Celeste says, “Instead of attacking fellow vegans, I hope for unity in a common cause of promoting compassion.”

It’s also important that big life choices like children don’t get reduced to a simple equation. Steph hasn’t experienced this particular situation, but she feels that framing things in a way that frustrates our basic human needs (and the need to reproduce and raise children would definitely apply!) is an incomplete perspective. Celeste’s spouse also brought up some of the absurdities that can present themselves if the discussion gets drawn out: it can easily turn itself to talk of mass suicides, which doesn’t make sense for anyone involved.

Finally, live like you love the planet, regardless of how many people you feel it can handle. Al suggests that you buy locally (and fair trade) when possible, favour hand-me-down clothes and toys, recycle, compost, buy used things, etc.

Ultimately, the choice not to have children is a choice, much like the choice to have them. By respecting each side and trying to focus on things we have in common, we can be more effective as vegans, as activists, and overall as human beings. (Then we can unite against Lionel Ritchie. I kid, I kid. No idea why I picked that name, honest!)

What about you? Have you been in situations with people who judged you unfairly simply because of your family? How did you deal with it? Let us know in the comments!

A huge thank you to Council members Elaine, Al, Celeste, Doh and Steph for their input on this one!

(Photo by Arenamontanus)

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Vegan birthday parties: be ready to negotiate!

December 23, 2009

I searched Flickr for Negotiate, this is what I got. It might feel like that sometimes! Photo by UN Climate Change

True story: as I’ve been writing up these posts about vegan birthday parties I’ve been humming “who likes to rock the vegan birthday party? I like to rock the vegan birthday party!” in an homage to Flight of the Conchords. Anyway.

In today’s installment, Katrina sends her thoughts:

“In the classroom, we have an agreement with the class that all shared snacks and birthday food is vegan and peanut free. So, that’s a piece of cake. (No pun intended.)

“As for birthday parties, I always pop off an email that says, “…..is looking forward to coming to….birthday party. Could you please let me know what you will be serving for food in addition to cake. I will provide a vegan substitution. Also, please let me know if there will be ice cream.” Seems like I usually send a homemade vegan pizza (Trader Joe’s dough, Follow Your Heart Mozzerella & Tomato Sauce) in a pizza size tupperware container. We also keep cupcakes in the freezer. So, then those are ready in a pinch if we need one for a party. I even have a plastic cupcake caddy.

“Soy Cream only travels to 50% of the parties depending on the situation. Sometimes we can not be prepared for every situation. I have an agreement with my son that if he is at a party and the other kids get something that he doesn’t, all he has to do is tell me and we get the equivalent later…and then some. I promised him that he will always get special things too. It’s working so far and he is almost 9. ”

Thanks Katrina! I’ve got a big rambly post in my head about how the whole peanut free movement might have made things easier for vegans with children, since it’s just another rule for “responsible hosts” to follow. Thoughts?

As for the story, here are a few bits I really appreciated:

Negotiate. If your child is old enough to understand delayed gratification, try making deals like Katrina did with her son: if there’s something he’s missing out on by being vegan, make it up (and then some) shortly afterwards.

Pizza makes it easy. I like the idea of bringing a vegan pizza to a birthday party. It’s big enough that other people can get exposed to vegan food, not too weird, and usually fits in well with whatever other food is there.

Never ever forget the ice cream. When I started this series, I thought it was all about the cake, but having vegan ice cream seems second only to cupcakes, based on the responses we’ve received so far.

What’s your “go to” non-dessert food item to bring to a party? Is it pizza now? Let us know in the comments!

(Photo by UN Climate Change)

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