Wow, there certainly are a lot of us out there - but c'mon, who's as amazing as your child? Photo by Arenamontanus
This week’s question came from a member of the Council: what do you do when you’re confronted by people who feel that the mere act of having children is wrong? That might sound a little weird, but there is a subset out there who believes there are more than enough people on the planet, and adding to that population only adds to the strain on Earth’s resources (one such group has their philosophy laid out on their Voluntary Human Extinction Movement web site.)
This kind of thing can come more often when you’re a vegan parent, as the vegan community sometimes overlaps other groups like this one – at least, that’s been the experience of at least one member of the Council.
So what’s to be done? Obviously, you’ve got a difference of opinion on the matter, but it can be super easy to feel uncomfortable in a group gathering. Here’s some of what our Council of Vegan Parents had to say on the matter.
First, make sure this is what you’re dealing with. As Elaine points out, some people are simply nervous and uncomfortable around children, and babies in particular. That really could be all that’s going on.
Next, who exactly are you dealing with? Are you being confronted by a vegan anti-populationist or an omnivore one? While it’s not exactly the same thing, Al’s been in discussions with people who try to justify their meat eating with their decision not to have children. His response might help you with omnivores, and it was along these lines:
“While I’m not a fan of using numbers to argue, if you were to calculate the amount of land used to feed my vegan family of four it would be LESS than what is used to feed your omnivorous family of two (assuming you eat roughly the same amount of animal ‘products’ as the average American family does). Same goes for carbon footprint. So if you two went vegan and had a couple kids, you’d be responsible for less environmental degradation than you are right now.”
(Of course, as Al notes, this assumes that his children will choose veganism once they’re old enough to do so, but we’ll go with that as a pretty decent assumption 
If you’re talking with other vegans, try focusing on what we have in common. Celeste (and many others, including myself) can’t figure out “why people within our movement feel the need to judge and alienate other vegans.” As she puts it, this goes directly against veganism’s compassionate foundations.
Just like the decision to adopt a plant-based diet, the choice to have children (or not to) is a personal decision for most people, but it’s important for everyone to realize that your family choices don’t fall inside any “Official Definition” of veganism held by any major group I’m aware of. In that context, resenting other vegans for their population choices makes about as much sense as resenting vegans because they listen to Lionel Ritchie. As Celeste says, “Instead of attacking fellow vegans, I hope for unity in a common cause of promoting compassion.”
It’s also important that big life choices like children don’t get reduced to a simple equation. Steph hasn’t experienced this particular situation, but she feels that framing things in a way that frustrates our basic human needs (and the need to reproduce and raise children would definitely apply!) is an incomplete perspective. Celeste’s spouse also brought up some of the absurdities that can present themselves if the discussion gets drawn out: it can easily turn itself to talk of mass suicides, which doesn’t make sense for anyone involved.
Finally, live like you love the planet, regardless of how many people you feel it can handle. Al suggests that you buy locally (and fair trade) when possible, favour hand-me-down clothes and toys, recycle, compost, buy used things, etc.
Ultimately, the choice not to have children is a choice, much like the choice to have them. By respecting each side and trying to focus on things we have in common, we can be more effective as vegans, as activists, and overall as human beings. (Then we can unite against Lionel Ritchie. I kid, I kid. No idea why I picked that name, honest!)
What about you? Have you been in situations with people who judged you unfairly simply because of your family? How did you deal with it? Let us know in the comments!
A huge thank you to Council members Elaine, Al, Celeste, Doh and Steph for their input on this one!
(Photo by Arenamontanus)
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
I'm trying to figure out why the anti-human population people don't commit mass suicide. This post reminds me of the (fabulous) movie, Idiocracy.
I certainly would want to smack someone who tried to tell me I shouldn't have a child in order to save resources while they chomp away on a hamburger. I think there are plenty of resources on the planet to feed us all and then some, if we just got a little smarter and more organized. There are great sources of food that are virtually untapped (like spirulina). A lot of people starve, not because of a lack of food, but because of corrupt governments and lack of education. I am definitely in favor of programs to try and convince people to be smarter about their procreation, but you will NEVER get people to stop having babies altogether. It seems futile to put so much effort into trying to convince people to stop when those efforts could be put towards trying to do something to relieve the problems that are blamed on “overpopulation”. I don't find the cause of the group you linked to noble at all.
Huge pet peeve: While I think it's great that so many people these days promote greener lifestyles, those that do so and continue to consume animal “foods” bother me a whole lot. The impact that animal agriculture has on our water supply (quality and quantity), soil quality, and health is staggering. It seems like the most logical place to start if you really want to make the world a better place.
Oh. So sorry. Looks like the issue of suicide actually IS addressed on the VHEM website. Of course it would be the most frequently asked question because it makes so much sense. The answer seems like a cop-out.
One more comment and then I'll shut up: I know some of you think we should all be respectful of other people's views, but the comics and handy “why people REALLY want to have kids” chart at that site are offensive and I can't pretend to respect people whose views are counter to just about everything I believe in. I'll respect their right to think what they want and express themselves, but I won't pretend to like them or bite my tongue if I disagree.
I looked for the suicide explanation too – wasn't it “it wouldn't be enough of a change” or something? The group tries to have bold ideas but clearly doesn't think big enough
One shouldn't dismiss a movement because some people who advocate its views do so in mean spirited and alienating ways..we'd not like it done to veganism, and by the same token it shouldn't be done to other movements, such as these folks. They are with the exception of extreme ones like vhemt, not “anti-population” but are against additional growth of the population. “Anti population people” are as representative of the larger group of folks concerned about population as the raw fruitarians are of veganism as a group. Make that the “saliva isn't vegan so no kissing” group.
Some of them are impossible to talk to, but most can be engaged. Just as they may have blind spots about eating choices, it would be a cop out to give ourselves a free pass on our own potential blind spots, by suggesting that an obnoxious vhemt or other web page or cartoon means we can dismiss their concerns.
I do wonder about that phrase “why people within our movement feel the need to judge and alienate other vegans.” Somehow I doubt most of them are thinking to themselves “I feel a need to alienate people” No more than most vegans say to themselves, “I feel a need to alienate a meat eating person” It's usually someone in distress or depressed about the state of the world and where its heading, concerned about suffering if the trend continues. Some can't be reasoned with and want to scream in our ears, but that's a small minority. Compassion goes both ways. Try to listen to the pain and concern lying behind their anger or behind their judgment. As vegans we've been on the other side of that. They are probably, in most cases, not upset that we have a kid or two but upset at another set of worries, some real, some exaggerated or imagined on their part. They see a vegan or environmentalist seeming to go along with the pressure to have kids, and then tell themselves that the world is now really going to hell if even the vegans have decided that population doesn't matter at all. If they can hear that you aren't doing it out of pressure, and that you understand and agree that population does matter, that it needs to stabilize and maybe even reduce over time. Kind of like us vegans seeing thte burger eater at the local green group but then hearing that they are not completely blind, they realize there are issues about food, and are thinking about it and about making changes but personally aren't at a place where they can be totally vegan. We vegans can be just as close minded to new ideas as anyone. How many of us know the current population isn't that so oftencited “six billion” you hear, but a hair shy of seven billion?
Thanks for the insightful comments!
I'm a vegan parent. I think genetic churn is good, when done with regard to local resource availability. That is, have *one or two* vegan kids and live as greenly as possible. Adopt them if that's your preference, from as genetically varied circumstances as possible.
Here's the thing: A population needs genetic diversity to survive. You know how all bananas we eat are all from one genetic strain, such that if some disease like Black Sigatoka fungus manages to kill off that strain then we will be out of bananas? This actually happened in the 1950s, and it was only because there were other strains to choose from that another edible banana was found. I think the same is true of the human species. Who knows what diseases will develop (especially in factory farms, and as climate changes) to sweep across the human population in decades to come?
The concept of hybrid vigor–an increase in the performance of hybrids over that of purebreds, most noticeably in traits like fertility and sterility–also comes into the picture here. Species can use this genetic variation to survive. Some people exposed to HIV do not get AIDS; what's special about their genetics? Who knows if there's a random gene in your own DNA that might prove key to humanity's future survival?
I think it's important to take this issue as seriously as you would take any other environmental issue. If someone asked you, “Why do you drive an SUV?” or “Why don't you recycle?” I would think that most vegans would take that question seriously, instead of saying it's as inconsequential as “Why do you like Lionel Ritchie?”
Concern for the environment may not be part of a textbook definition of veganism, but as vegans, we should have compassion for all living beings and that includes concerns for wildlife and their habitat.
To be clear, I wasn't trying to claim it was inconsequential, but rather that it made more sense to focus on what we have in common. There's always room for a healthy discussion, but resenting people over our differences when we have so much else in common seems counterproductive. I apologize if my quest to make a joke at Mr. Ritchie's expense got in the way of the core messaging
what do you say to vegan people who condemn those who have kids?
what do you say to vegan people who condemn those who have kids?
Wow! THANK you for this! As a vegan (and a parent, but not parent of vegans since they have yet to CHOOSE to go beyond vegetarian), I've been almost mobbed by the VHEM folks or other vegans who don't want children. They left me wondering what happened while I was busy incubating my babies and looking inward rather than outward. I feel a lot less alone now… well as less alone as a vegan in the deep south COULD feel LOL. An insightful, helpful, and sensitive article!
Glad we could help! If you have any questions be sure to get in touch.
My boyfriend is an “anti-population person”. Any ideas on what I can say to him?
Yikes, if this is in the “I want to have a child with him” context, that's a tough one! I think there's a macro (whole civilizations) and micro (individual children) perspective, and it helps a lot to separate the two. Would one more person on the planet be so bad if that person has a good chance of sharing your values and beliefs?
How did I not know about this blog? I’m a vegan dad of 22 month old twins and really appreciate the content here-in. Thank you so much for existing (surely to the dismay of VHEM)!
In the last year and half or so I’ve encountered many anti-procreation vegans. Generally speaking, they have been very offensive and insulting, using many of the lines from the charts on the VHEM site that jendiggity mentioned above.
Aside from the anti-movement divisiveness and inherent misanthropy/misogyny that comes with an anti-procreation position, it is simply misguided. Much of this issue can be traced back to the flawed conservative arguments of Reverend Thomas Malthus, and their relatively recent adaptions by contemporary authors such as the Ehrlichs (The Population Bomb) and James Lovelock (From the Gaia Hypothesis, of which VHEM bases its position). Basically, according to the theorists, the main source of all the problems on this planet is the number of humans existing regardless of where they live, how they conduct their lives, what socio-economic system that was imposed upon them, etc. “Too many people”, according to these populationists, are the main cause of environmental destruction, species extinction, social conflict, resource depletetion, etc, and unless we can reduce the human population, we will face imminent collapse.
This is simply not true.
The amount of humans in existence is not the main cause of these problems. The main causes are corporate processes (think of fracking, mountain top removal, resource extraction, mass production, designed obsolesence, etc), unjust political and economic systems, militarism (one of, if not THE, largest polluter on the planet), industrial agriculture, and of course the animal exploitation industries, which we vegans should know are causing massive destruction at many levels. The vast, vast, vast majority of humans have absolutely nothing to do with the decision making processes of these institutions and systems (think of the 1% articulated by the Occupy movement). When VHEM or any other anti-procreationist individual or organization places blame on human individuals for deciding to procreate they are essentially blaming fellow victims of the destruction and conflict caused by the sources listed above and, in effect, letting the real culprits the hook largely unnoticed.
To keep this short, I would like to post some links to information that anyone can use to debunk individual-blaming arguments typically put forward by anti-procreationists. They have helped me effectively shut down the blame-game initiated by these folks. I hope they can help some of you too.
http://popdev.hampshire.edu/projects
http://www.scribd.com/doc/74300416/Panic-Over-7-Billion-Letting-The-1-Off-The-Hook
http://popdevprogram.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/cant-miss-it-reading-list-new-books-on-population/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/67407514/Dissecting-those-overpopulation-numbers-excerpt-from-Too-Many-People-Population-Immigration-and-the-Environmental-Crisis-by-Ian-Angus-and-Simon
http://www.cwpe.org/resources/popcontrol/equation
All the best,
Lucas